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arod812
2197 Posts |
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bodiaz
2572 Posts |
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arod812
2197 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2007 : 03:38:57
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quote:
Originally posted by bodiaz
SO? Why is shilling not allowed? If he wins his own auction he pays the ebay fee. I don't understand the problem. It is very hard to make money on Ebay nowadays because collectors have gotten so cheap. Bust a $1000 case, and your lucky to get half of that back. Even if you have a lucky case. This industry is garbage right now. Noone wants to pay anything close to value on items. Only thing you can make money on is selling packs. Why wouldn't you just buy the card you want instead of opening hundreds in packs to get it? To many gamblers in this biz.
I totally hear you about the industry and all. I usually just buy singles now. Shill bidding isn't allowed because sellers want to get more than they should by bumping the bid the minimum every time until they figure out the other bidders maximum bid. I'm sure a lot of other people will let you know about this and will explain better than me. It is hard to put in words on a computer to make it sensible. |
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Zack7983
3201 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 03:48:08
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Shill bidding defeats the purpose of an auction. If you want your product to sell at a certain price, set a reserve or put the minimum bid higher.
"Shill bidding may be a common practice on eBay. In his book FAKE: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. While many sellers consider shill bidding a harmless act, some believe that it may violate federal or state laws. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding."
I wouldn't mess around with it. |
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Zack7983
3201 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 03:50:37
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| But also, how can you be sure this is what is going on? |
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arod812
2197 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 04:01:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Zack7983
But also, how can you be sure this is what is going on?
Just look at the football cards he listed and the bid history. The person has only 1 feedback and is high bidder on all the cards which is already enough to call it shill bidding right there. When you look at the bid history, you see the shiller bid the minimum bid each time until it was obvious what the other bidders maximum bid was then stopped to get their max bid out of them or outbid them if not happy with current price of it to get more money or not sell it if sold too cheap. |
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Zack7983
3201 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 04:05:04
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| Sucks to be him... report his ass! |
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bodiaz
2572 Posts |
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Zack7983
3201 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 04:37:46
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Like I said- Shill bidding defeats the purpose of an auction. If you want your product to sell at a certain price, set a reserve or put the minimum bid higher.
"Shill bidding is the dishonest and deceptive practice of bidding on ones own auction, with the intent of driving up the final bid price. The intent of the shill bidder is not to win, but to create interest, excitement and a higher perceived value. The practice most commonly takes place in an online auction format, due to the relative ease of obscuring ones identity as an online bidder, as well as the opportunity to set a reserve price, which is typically discouraged in live auction formats."
More info on why it sucks: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/nov/nov8a_04.html
I don't see how anyone of integrity could support this practice. And apparently, neither does the Law.
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bodiaz
2572 Posts |
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clemsontoby
2283 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 09:22:03
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Ethics?
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GPK GUY 1977
2896 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 09:59:32
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Clearly, some folks on this board don't have any.
quote:
Originally posted by clemsontoby
Ethics?
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Due to too many recent bad deals, if we have a deal and you have fewer posts than me, I will be expecting you to send first.
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Edited by - GPK GUY 1977 on 08/25/2007 09:59:58 |
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Zack7983
3201 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 12:03:41
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| That's what I was thinking... I was alone in my argument late last night though... thanks for the support now! |
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GPK GUY 1977
2896 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 12:19:50
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It's very popular these days to hate Ozzie Smith and ethics. 
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Due to too many recent bad deals, if we have a deal and you have fewer posts than me, I will be expecting you to send first.
MY SPORTLOTS AUCTIONS: http://www.sportlots.com/auction/aucbin/selleritems.tpl?seller=higroov2
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Stoney20
1087 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 12:33:41
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bodiaz-It's against ebay policy. If you read there policies if you do that you can earn yourself a nice little suspension. So it's not even a personal matter it's against ebay policy.
Bucket:http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa9/stoney21/ |
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thehypogecko
285 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 12:43:06
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The big deal is that it inflates the fair market value. Also, you may get outbid by a shill bidder and then decide to go onto another auction, but then the shill bidder cancels his highest bid and now your stuck with winning two auctions.
quote:
Originally posted by bodiaz
Whys hould it be illegal??? Only bid what you are willing to pay. If he outbids you, so what. He can't make you bid anymore. Sorry, Don't get it.
http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g25/peterhaskett/
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snakehunter14
160 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 14:51:10
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| Zack hit it on the nose... an auction implies one or more people who REALLY want to win an item, and the price goes up according to what each is willing to pay. When the OWNER of the item bids merely to raise the price, that is NOT an auction. I agree whole heartedly that if you have a set price in mind that you want the item to go for, you put a Reserve on it. Here's hoping all shillers get stuck with their own items, and have to pay the additional fees! |
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Micah Owings Collector
3810 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 14:57:06
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I hate when people put half naked chicks in there listing to attract buyers.
Thanks,
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jasonmj
Wow you type hot! 
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PhilipCohen
5 Posts |
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marinemafia
2759 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 08:40:34
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[quote]Originally posted by thehypogecko
The big deal is that it inflates the fair market value. Also, you may get outbid by a shill bidder and then decide to go onto another auction, but then the shill bidder cancels his highest bid and now your stuck with winning two auctions.
Shill Bidding is apain in the butt,no doubt! The above is incorrect,if a shill makes a bid and cancels the bid,you are offered a 2nd chance offer,you don't have to accept it. |
If anyone needs to contact me,i can be reached on the Bench,FCB.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bornagaincollector/
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BigDol
2510 Posts |
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tguillotte
2493 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 09:50:27
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"SHILL BIDDING" EXPOSED IN ONLINE AUCTIONS
Phony Bids Inflate Selling Price of Auctioned Artwork, Sports Memorabilia and Other Merchandise
State Attorney General Spitzer today announced the resolution of three cases arising from an investigation of phony bids in on-line auctions.
In the first case, three individuals pleaded guilty to criminal charges stemming from actions they took to inflate the prices of artwork and other merchandise that was sold in E-Bay auctions. In two other cases, defendants entered into civil settlements with the Attorney General's office for illegally bidding up sports memorabilia and automobiles sold in on-line auctions.
"The use of shill bids in on-line auctions illegally drives up prices and defrauds consumers," Spitzer said. "These cases and continuing efforts to monitor transactions should help maintain the integrity of on-line auctions."
Spitzer commended E-Bay for the valuable assistance it provided to his office, as it investigated the matter.
In the criminal case, Jerrold Schuster, the former owner of the New Windsor Auction Gallery, pleaded guilty in the County Court of Orange County in Goshen, to Combination in Restraint of Trade, a violation of the New York antitrust law, a felony punishable by a maximum of four years in prison. Schuster 's former employees, Darek Szydlowski and Francis Komsisky, Jr., pleaded guilty to Attempted Combination in Restraint of Trade, a misdemeanor antitrust violation, which is punishable by up to one year in prison. As part of the disposition, Schuster is expected to pay $50,000 in restitution and fines.
According to the criminal charges, Schuster, Szydlowski and Komsisky cast bids in over 1,100 of each others' eBay auctions for the sole purpose of driving up the price of the merchandise that they offered for sale over a five-year period. The defendants were known by various e-Bay User IDs including "sambuca914," "gutek914," "zugnicht," and "fourlizards."
In a separate civil case, Robert Baranovich and his son, Steven Baranovich, of West Babylon, agreed to pay $10,000 in penalties and restitution to consumers harmed by their shill bidding. In a complaint filed with the Consent Order settling the case, the Attorney General alleged that the Baranoviches placed 170 phony bids in 165 of their own E-Bay auctions of sports memorabilia.
In another civil case, Richard Eggleston, Darryl Lien, and David Printy, together with a related corporation, Daryl Lien, Inc., agreed to pay more than $28,000 in penalties and restitution for their shill bidding practices. In a complaint filed with the Consent Order, the Attorney General alleged that they placed 610 bids in 106 of their own auto auctions under the user ID "Mother's Custom Automotive NY Dealer."
The Attorney General's office has identified more than 120 consumers who paid more for items as a result of shill bidding activities in the three cases. Settlements will provide compensation to these individuals. The damages are as high as several thousand dollars for some consumers.
For example, in one auction, Schuster's New Windsor Gallery "shilled up" by more than $7,300 an oil painting attributed to Hudson River School artist Ralph Blakelock (1847-1919). The high bidder paid $7,500 for the painting. Another purported Blakelock fetched $3,000 – shilled up by more than $2,800. The Gallery shilled up its auction of an antique cloisonne vase by more than $2,500 – ultimately selling for $3,250. Yet another bidder was overcharged $2,372, for art work he purchased in over thirty separate auctions.
In one of Daryl Lien Inc.'s online auctions, the high bidder for a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee overpaid by more than $3,000. In one of the Baranoviches' auctions, the purchaser of a bat signed by the 2000 New York Yankees paid $999 – a sum shilled up $175 from its previous high bid of $824.
The cases were handled by Stephen Kline of the Attorney General's Internet Bureau, Michelle Maerov of the Criminal Prosecutions Bureau, Howard Wettan of the Antitrust Bureau, and Kenneth Dreifach, who is Chief of the Internet Bureau. Hampton Finer, Chief Economist for the Antitrust Bureau, Vanessa Ip, Investigator for the Internet Bureau, and Brian Ford of the Investigations Bureau also assisted in these investigations.
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RyanL24
11412 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 11:07:58
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quote:
Originally posted by marinemafia
Shill Bidding is apain in the butt,no doubt! The above is incorrect,if a shill makes a bid and cancels the bid,you are offered a 2nd chance offer,you don't have to accept it.
I disagree. If the shill bidder retracts his bid before the auction ends, the 2nd place bidder is back in first. The 2nd chance offer would only happen if the shiller did not retract his bid, and actually won the item... |
---Sig starts here---
collecting: Sabathia, Jason Jennings, Rickey Henderson and 2001-2008 Topps Black & Gold
 
STAY CLASSY
PHILADELPHIA!!!
RyanL24@msn.com |
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GUCD231
4753 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 11:25:46
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Marine,not true bud.If you have high bid and someone bids above you then cancels that bid,it then makes you high bidder again before the auction is over you win it.Only after the auction ends with a shill winning can you be given a second offerquote:
Originally posted by marinemafia
[quote]Originally posted by thehypogecko
The big deal is that it inflates the fair market value. Also, you may get outbid by a shill bidder and then decide to go onto another auction, but then the shill bidder cancels his highest bid and now your stuck with winning two auctions.
Shill Bidding is apain in the butt,no doubt! The above is incorrect,if a shill makes a bid and cancels the bid,you are offered a 2nd chance offer,you don't have to accept it.
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EMAIL <gucd231@yahoo.com>
BUCKET http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/GUCD231/
I GO BY BECKETT VALUE.IF WE ARE TRADING AND YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SELL VALUE PLEASE BY ALL MEANS...SELL IT.THANKS FOR YOUR TIME,STEVEN. |
Edited by - GUCD231 on 06/02/2009 11:27:04 |
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GUCD231
4753 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 11:28:54
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Ryan beat me to it,lol.quote:
Originally posted by GUCD231
Marine,not true bud.If you have high bid and someone bids above you then cancels that bid,it then makes you high bidder again before the auction is over you win it.Only after the auction ends with a shill winning can you be given a second offerquote:
Originally posted by marinemafia
[quote]Originally posted by thehypogecko
The big deal is that it inflates the fair market value. Also, you may get outbid by a shill bidder and then decide to go onto another auction, but then the shill bidder cancels his highest bid and now your stuck with winning two auctions.
Shill Bidding is apain in the butt,no doubt! The above is incorrect,if a shill makes a bid and cancels the bid,you are offered a 2nd chance offer,you don't have to accept it.
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EMAIL <gucd231@yahoo.com>
BUCKET http://s366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/GUCD231/
I GO BY BECKETT VALUE.IF WE ARE TRADING AND YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SELL VALUE PLEASE BY ALL MEANS...SELL IT.THANKS FOR YOUR TIME,STEVEN. |
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Braun08RCcollector
2431 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2009 : 11:39:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Zack7983
Like I said- Shill bidding defeats the purpose of an auction. If you want your product to sell at a certain price, set a reserve or put the minimum bid higher.
"Shill bidding is the dishonest and deceptive practice of bidding on ones own auction, with the intent of driving up the final bid price. The intent of the shill bidder is not to win, but to create interest, excitement and a higher perceived value. The practice most commonly takes place in an online auction format, due to the relative ease of obscuring ones identity as an online bidder, as well as the opportunity to set a reserve price, which is typically discouraged in live auction formats."
More info on why it sucks: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/nov/nov8a_04.html
I don't see how anyone of integrity could support this practice. And apparently, neither does the Law.
reserves and higher starting prices in auctions turn away bidders. Schilling is used to be kind of a hidden reserve so bidders dont know they are going to have to pay at least a certain price to get an item. Im not saying schilling is right, im just saying that a schill bidder would never put a reserve or a higher start price because they know how eBay works and that bidders are turned off by that |
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Shill Bidding Ebay Seller ALERT!!!!!
